First impressions: an interview with Milwaukee Archbishop-elect Timothy M. Dolan

Before Archbishop-elect Timothy M. Dolan met the Milwaukee-area media in a June 25 press conference, he sat down and shared his initial perspective on priorities for and impressions of the Milwaukee Archdiocese and the Catholic Church as a whole. Here are highlights of his interview with the Catholic Herald's Laurel Nelson-Rowe.

Q. What are your first impressions of the Milwaukee Archdiocese, its clergy and its laity?

A. First impressions are still being made, but the immediate ones are excellent. First of all, the impression is the warmth and the welcome of Archbishop Weakland and Bishop Sklba, the priests and the lay leaders I've met. They've been, without exception, as warm and as embracing as possible.

I'm familiar a little with the archdiocese, as you know, because my brother Bob, and his wife Beth, live here. I've been coming up here, I bet, for 12 years. I always associate coming to Milwaukee with holidays, with vacation.

So, right away, I'm going to have an upbeat, positive perception of Milwaukee. It's always associated with good times, being with my family, and away from work. I'll have to get used to that now, because obviously now this is my work place, no longer my vacation place. But, you need to know, first impressions would be one of warmth, hospitality, one of welcome, one of vitality. Those are first impressions, and they are good ones.

I'm hoping I give good first impressions, because those are really important to the people of the church here.

Q. In addition to your initial statement, what are you initially trying to convey, key messages and concepts, that you want to convey, to the church in southeastern Wisconsin?

A. I've been thinking about that I've been thinking long and hard about that in the last week since I've known that the Holy Father's appointed me archbishop of Wisconsin. If there would be one word that would kind of summarize in a very compelling way, the message I would like to give it would be one of hope. I, myself, am a man of hope. I'm a man that does not easily get discouraged. I'm a man who has such faith in Jesus Christ and his promise to stay with his church, that I don't get down.

I think hope is particularly needed because we're going through a difficult time in the life of the church. I often think we're like the apostles in that boat, in the middle of the storm on the Sea of Galilee. We're kind of tempted at times to wonder if the Lord has let us down. We're even tempted, at times, to wonder if the boat's going to capsize. But I keep just imagining our Lord saying "courage, it is I," and "do not be afraid," and calming the winds and the waves. So that gives me tremendous hope.

That doesn't mean I'm naïve. I'm a church historian by training, and no church historian can be naïve. It does give you hope, because church history teaches you that the church has been through it all before. And that in beautiful ways, that are sometimes never evident except in retrospect, you can always see where Jesus has been in charge. We come through periods of storm and crisis even stronger than before. So, that would be my message -- one of hope.

Q. What precise moments in church history do you find comparable to where we are now?

A. Let me answer that in two ways. From a negative point of view, in other words, the difficulties we're going through, I find it somewhat similar to the period after the French Revolution, where there seems to be a big question mark after the whole question of what you might call the visible, the institutional church. The church is in shambles after the French Revolution. Many people thought the visible church, as we know it, could never survive. And of course it did. That would be kind of a negative time.

A positive time, I really think we might be entering, and I don't think I say this with any sort of naiveté, we could be entering a real Catholic reformation, that happened after the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century, where the church was in some ways decimated, there was such a revival of sanctity, of evangelical vigor, of courage and fortitude, of a real focusing on the essentials of church teaching, a return to Jesus and the sacred scripture and the apostolic tradition. It was an era of saints. It was an era of courage. It was an era where, from top to bottom, the church was reformed and renewed. And I don't think I'm being too naïve to think, that at least for the church in the United States, we might be at that period now.

Add to that, we're still in the post-conciliar period, the period after the Second Vatican Council which was an epic event in the life of the church. We're still in that from the point of view of church history, 35 years is like a drop in the bucket. And all the vigor and promise of the Jubilee, all these phrases that have become, I'm afraid, clichés like the "springtime of evangelization" and "new Pentecost;" those are phrases filled with meaning and I think we're beginning to realize that -- the impact of those phrases.

So, there it is again; you see hope. So I would compare this perhaps I think we're going to see this as an era of saints; we're going to see this as an era for Catholic men and women in all vocations, in all areas of service to the church. There's going to be a growth in integrity, of courage, of re-commitment and zeal -- certainly among the clergy -- so I'm just filled with hope.

Q. You have a book written effectively about priests in the new millennium.

A. Thanks for being aware of that.

Scott McConnaha interviewed you.

I remember that.

In tracing back to that, particularly in light of the clergy sex abuse, that is rocking the church. Have those concepts changed or have you updated your thinking in any way or has it been stronger than ever?

No, it would be stronger than ever. It would almost be like I'm saying to myself, "I told you so." These things we need to hear more than ever. And I've also been moved by the number of past seminarians who listened to those when I gave those rector conferences at the North American College who have been kind enough to write and say they reread different chapters and find them now more timely than ever. Why, Laurel, because basically one of the things, probably two of the things, that I would characterize as most necessary for priestly health, for priestly effectiveness would be the two virtues of integrity and fidelity. And, if anything, this whole crisis has shown us the necessity of those two virtues.

Integrity to self, integrity that means sincerity, inner honesty that we are completely honest with the Lord, with ourselves, with our people, the church; that we try our best to live up with complete purity of heart to all the promises that we've made. So that's integrity.

Fidelity -- the problem is not in our priestly commitment; the problem is not with what the church asks of us; the problem is that some of us have been less than faithful to that. So there you have it again -- that virtue of fidelity.

This is also an invitation for us -- and I'm hoping I find the same thing here in the church in southeastern Wisconsin -- I'm hoping I find that same ground swell of affirmation and support for priests that are detected -- not only detected -- namely the people are saying, "You bet we find the behavior of certain priests to be abhorrent and the church must be cleansed of that kind of scandal and that type of aberration. But, we want to use this as the occasion to affirm the vast majority of priests who are leading lives of complete fidelity and integrity. There's that renewal, there's that resilience that I was talking about a little earlier.

Q. Yet in light of the clergy sex abuse, there's been a call among and for the laity to take a more prominent role in decision-making and administration. And that's very much been a hallmark of the church in southeastern Wisconsin.

So I hear, so I hear.

Where do you see yourself heading in light of that?

A. I hope I'm going to be able to believe and find accurate press releases that I've already read that the Archdiocese of Milwaukee has a tremendous reputation of great pastoral collaboration, of encouragement given to lay leadership within the church. So you're ahead of the game on that. That's something many other dioceses now are finding out the hard way. And I don't hear any of us, my brother bishops, saying we need all the help we can get.

We relish the idea of more collaboration with the laity; we need it; part of the reason we got in trouble is because things were perhaps too closed; we were operating still out of the old boys network and we need to open up; we need to be more transparent; we need to trust our people who have a lot more expertise and who have such a meat and potatoes common sense that they can really give us a lot of guidance.

Now what we're doing; this isn't a new call to the laity to help us in collaboration; this is something as old as Pentecost. But which the church through two millennia has tried its best to implement. If something good can come out of this -- which I believe it can -- because the Lord always brings good out of evil; if something good can come out of the current scandal I would say that it would be even more of an affirmation on the importance of appropriate lay leadership in the church and collaboration with faithful Catholics.

Q. Back to an earlier thread -- in coming to the Archdiocese of Milwaukee, do you see that this archdiocese is particularly hurting, is in particular pain and what would you do to convey a message of healing?

A. Haven't been here long enough to know the depth of the pain or the sadness. I know that there's not a diocese in the United States that is not going through a very somber tumultuous time. If what I hear is accurate, that might even be a little deeper in the Archdiocese of Milwaukee because of the particular pain surrounding Archbishop Weakland. So there again what I feel the best service I can provide the people of the Archdiocese of Milwaukee is to say this isn't about the past, this is about the present and the future.

And it's time to rebuild and it's time to go on. And as my Dad taught me -- you make a mistake; you do something wrong; you admit it and you say I learned from it; let's get on with life and let's go on stronger and more mature and more responsible in the future. So in some way it's get back to that hope again. If in some way I can just say to the people, "I love you. I need you. Let's go. Let's keep at it. Let's just strengthen all the great things that's part of our beautiful heritage here in the archdiocese and let's evangelize; let's get on with life and let's do it with as much strength, as much pep, and as much confidence as we can because fear is useless.

It was providential this past Sunday -- I'm 52 years old; I'm not even a diocesan bishop yet; I haven't even been a bishop a year -- so I have to admit that there's some trepidation. You know to come to one of the major archdioceses in the United States, but the Liturgy of the Word this last Sunday when Jesus is saying, "Don't be afraid, don't be afraid." And it dawned on me, we're blessed with the Lord who repeats himself because that's one of the things that the Lord says throughout the entire Bible -- "Don't be afraid; I'm with you." So that's what we've got to say.

There's so much reason for fear and fear is just so paralyzing isn't it? And we've just got to listen to Jesus say, "Don't be afraid." That's why I thought it was great -- the first words the Holy Father said when he was elected, when he came to St. Peter's Square, "Don't be afraid." Here's a man who had struggled with Nazism, struggled with deaths of his parents and his sister and brother, struggled with Communism; he said, "Don't be afraid." So I think if I can say that to people and prove it, not only with words but with deeds.

Q. Yet you say that there is a bit of trepidation.

Yes, there is.

Because of the size, because of the scope, what's the root of the trepidation?

A. Well, probably the root of the trepidation is not out there it's in here. I know this is going to demand a lot of hard work, a lot of creativity, a lot of dedication. People that know me pretty well have said that one strength that I might have is self knowledge and I am very aware of my own shortcomings. So trepidation would come from within.

I hope I'm up to it; I hope that reality can match the dreams because I have absolutely no doubt that my dreams, my imagination would be as elevated and noble as could be; I am just hoping that my actions can match up to that and that a couple of years from now people can just say, "Boy I really thank God that Archbishop Dolan is doing a fine job; we love him and we trust him and we're glad he's here." That's my prayer. I just hope I've got what it takes.

Q. Even as you visited the diocese over the years, what do you see in the church of southeastern Wisconsin as its strengths and its weaknesses?

A. Here I would say it's an evident strength. You know most of the time we talk about the strengths of the church; we're tempted to think of institutions, of numbers, of programs. The strength of the Archdiocese of Milwaukee is its people. You just look at good, common meat and potato Catholic men and women who love their church, who love Jesus, who want to do their best to bring Gospel values to their daily life, who want to raise their families to be men and women of faith -- that's the strength.

I thought of that two or three weeks ago when I was up here in Milwaukee for my niece Caitlin's graduation from eighth grade out at St. Luke (Brookfield). And I looked out and I'm thinking, "You know I could be in a parish in St. Louis, I could be in a parish in Ballwin, Missouri where I grew up, I could be in a parish in Washington, Missouri; here I am in a parish in a suburb of Milwaukee and you still got great "salt of the earth" people. They're "salt of the earth;" they're "light to the world" and they expect great things from us, from their church. And there's the strength; there's the strength; there's a tremendous deposit of that faith and good will that you see in your people; there's the great strength. Now I'm beginning to sense that one of the characteristics of the church in southeastern Wisconsin is that it taps into that -- big time! That's a great thing. There's the strength -- the people!

I was in a parish in the Archdiocese of St. Louis that was particularly hard hit by the scandal. Two priests who both were very close to me had to be removed. As devastating as it was for the people, they're the ones that kept us going. And I remember as I was coming back that it was tough times after that. As I'd leave the office and go back home it was hardly a respite to go back to the rectory. And I'm leaving my car one night about 9 and I'm walking to the rectory and I see this young couple coming up toward me real quick. I thought, "Oh, here we go again; they're going to start griping because the parish is very upset at us for removing priests." And they come up and they say, "Father, are you with the parish; would you mind, could we go in and register?" I said, "Sure." "We just moved into the neighborhood and one of the reasons we did is because of this parish; we understand it's really a vibrant community; it's a great neighborhood; that the parish is the heart of life; that you're blessed with a good school; that everybody finds a home here, and we hear, too, that you have some troubled times but we still want to be part of this parish."

You know what that did to me? You talk about a shot in the arm. Here are these people at a time when I was kind of tempted to be downcast; here these people boost me up. That's what I'm talking about -- meat and potato faith. That's the real strength of the church isn't it? What's humbling for us as bishops is that they're the people that we're called to serve and most of the time they end up serving us and calling out what's best in us. So I don't know if that helps or not.

Q. Weaknesses?

A. Weaknesses, I don't know. I'm sure there are some.

Q. You'll let us know?

A. If you let me know mine; I'm sure there are some of those. I'm sure there are some, and I've already heard. Pastoral leaders of the church -- weaknesses don't daunt us because St. Paul says in weakness there is strength. I always prefer to use the word challenge. We look at every weakness as a challenge to faith and to hope. So I'm sure there's going to be some difficulties, if that's what you mean.

In fact, Archbishop Weakland and Bishop Sklba have already mentioned a few areas that are going demand attention. There's a crunch in priests. We have to tend to that; that's one immediate one that my two brother bishops here have mentioned that they've already begun to address which is going to demand a lot of commitment from me, which is one by the way that I welcome because one thing I can say, unwavering about myself, I love my own priesthood and I love my brother priests. So anything I can do to hold them up and to let them hold me up is going to be a great blessing.

Q. Have you already thought through an approach on that particular issue because it's not only in the case of this diocese?

A. And it wouldn't be unique to this diocese; you're right on target. The three principles that usually guide me, that obviously are going to be flushed out in these particular circumstances. Three ways I think we will always approach that particular challenge:

(1) is to do anything we can to build up the priests that we've got, to affirm them, to strengthen them, to do everything possible to make their ministry as effective as possible and to care for one another -- to care and to love the priests that we've got;

(2) is to buckle in and to do everything possible to increase vocations to the priesthood and I think that's a great challenge. Archbishop Rigali had asked me to work on full-time in the Archdiocese of St. Louis and we were beginning to do. So, there's the second one;

(3) is to do everything possible to enhance the legitimate and authentic vocations of others in the church and to affirm their calls to service so that they, too, can live out their baptismal commitment that's nourished in Eucharist, that's strengthened in Confirmation and take their roles of leadership and service within the church, too. That's would be the three ways, that would be the strategy that most bishops look at.

Q. Any other priorities that you have set for yourself?

A. Priorities that I would have is to get to know this archdiocese as much as possible. I'd like to hit the ground running and I would like to go non-stop through the first year. I'd love to visit as many parishes, as many people as I can. I know I'm getting myself in trouble in saying this, but I love to work and I love people. In fact, one of the flaws that I have is that I would kind of tend to let administrative things stack up because I like to be in the field; I like to be on the front lines; I like to be with the folks.

So that's a priority just to get to see and to meet as many people as possible and to listen to them. There's something that I'm grateful for already in the Archdiocese of Milwaukee because Bishop Sklba and Archbishop Weakland tell me that as a matter of fact we've got a well-oiled administrative machinery here that takes care of a lot of administrative questions so I'm saying, "alleluia" because they have to seatbelt me to the desk sometimes because I like to be out with the folks. I'm sort of a fish-fry and bingo guy. I like being at the school picnics and stuff.

Q. One more question. Front and center you have been in the diocese and dealt with the clergy sex abuse scandal. What lessons there will you bring here and apply?

A. I have been. Boy, you talk about the last five months. A couple things. If you just think of focus. First of all, we can never say "I'm sorry" enough. I spent a good chunk of the last four months meeting with victims. Secondly, there's no exaggerating the suffering and hurt that victims have gone through. Thirdly, we must continue to restore the trust of our people and, fourthly, the protection of children in the embrace of the church that was founded by the man who said, "Let the little children come to me." That's got to be the number one priority. Those are four things I sort of learned right off the bat.

Q. And you were in Dallas?

A. Yes, I was in Dallas.

Q. Did you vote with the 13?

A. We have secret ballots. You can count on me for vigorously supporting the charter.

Thank you very much, Bishop.